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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1994-0809.LaHay.95-08-15 ONTARIO EMPLOYES DE LA COURONNE CROWN EMPLOYEES DE L'ONTARIO GRIEVANCE COMMISSION DE SETTLEMENT REGLEMENT BOARD DES GRIEFS 180 DUNDAS STREET WEST, SUITE 2700, TORONTO, ONTARIO. M5G 1Z8 TELEPHONE/TELEPHONE: (416) 326-1388 180, RUE DUNDAS OUEST, BUREAU 2100, TORONTO (ONTARIO). M5G 1Z8 FACSIMILE/TELECOPIE (416) 326-1396 GSB # 809/94 OPSEU # OLB148/94 IN THE MATTER OF AN ARBITRATION Under THE CROWN EMPLOYEES COLLECTIVE BARGAINING ACT Before THE GRIEVANCE SETTLEMENT BOARD BETWEEN OLBEU (LaHay) Grievor - and - The Crown in Right of Ontario (Liquor Control Board of Ontario) Employer BEFORE M. Gorsky Vice-Chairperson FOR THE E. Mitchell GRIEVOR Counsel Koskie & Minsky Barristers & Solicitors FOR THE R. Drmaj EMPLOYER Counsel Hicks, Morley, Hamilton, Stewart, Storie Barristers & Soliciitors HEARING June 5, 1995 l D E C I S I O N Ms . Mitchell, counsel for the Union, made the following statements at the opening of the hearing with respect to the facts said to be material to her application for a declaration that the discharge of the Grievor was void ab initio : 1 . On June 13 , 1994, Gordon Holmes, the Store Manager at the store where the Grievor worked in Orillia (Store #175) , handed the -Grievor a letter dated June 10 , 1994, from Bob Porter, District Manager #15 of the Employer' s Western Region (Exhibit 4) : Dear Mr. Lahay [sic] : RE: NOTICE OF INTENDED DISCIPLINE On receipt of this letter June 13 , 1994 you are hereby relieved form duty with pay. This action results from a security investigation in which you were observed using improper cashiering procedures on May 4, 1994 . This is not a disciplinary response but as a result of these events disciplinary action may be taken against you . Within three (3) calendar days from receipt of this letter, you are asked to submit a written statement by registered mail to my attention, explaining the matter mentioned above . Should a meeting be scheduled following the receipt of your written statement, you are entitled to Union Representation, as discipline may result . If you choose not to respond, Management will act on currently available information. A decision concerning this matter will be made known to you in due course . (Emphasis in original) l 2 2 . On June 14, 1994 Mr. LaHay sent Mr. Porter his written reply (Exhibit 5) to Exhibit 4 . 3 . On June 23 , 1994 , Ron Fisher, Regional Director, Western Region of the Employer sent Mr. LaHay a letter dated the same day (Exhibit 6) by Priority Post, notifying him that his employment with the Liquor Control Board of Ontario was "terminated for cause, namely, improper cashiering procedures, effective this date, June 23 , 1994 . " 4 . On June 20 , 1994, Mr. LaHay filed a grievance (Exhibit 2) , which it was acknowledged related to his receipt of the Notice of Intended Discipline (Exhibit 4) in which he grieved: Statement of Grievance (Clauses Violated) Article 2 . 1 and 2 . 7 of OLBEU agreement and article 43 . 1 of Labour Relations Act also all of the articles of OLBEU, CECBA or Labour Relations Act pertaining to this grievance . 5 . The settlement desired was : To receive all wages, benefits and seniority lost To be made in hole [sic] 6 . On June 28 , 1994 , Mr. LaHay filed a further grievance (Exhibit 3) , which it was agreed related to his being discharged on June 23 , 1994 . This grievance, in its statement of grievance and relief requested was identical to Exhibit 2 . 3 7 . On August 8 , 1994 , Mr. Fisher sent a letter (Exhibit 8) to Mr. LaHay in connection with his suspension grievance (Exhibit 2) indicating that the parties had agreed that a third stage meeting would not be held and that his grievance would "advance to the Grievance Settlement Board. " At the hearing it was agreed that the discharge grievance was also to go directly to the Grievance Settlement Board without the need to follow the other steps of the grievance procedure . 8 . Ms . Mitchell wrote a letter dated August 25 , 1995 (Exhibit 7) to Mr. Drmaj , counsel for the Employer "Re : Discharge grievance of David LaHay GSB #809-9411 , in which she states : We hereby notify you that, in addition to the Articles grieved in the grievance dated June 20 , 1994, the Union also grieves that the employer has violated Article 26 . 3 of the Collective Agreement . In particular, the Union also grieves that the employer did not offer the grievor union representation in advance of the meeting of June 13 , 1994, at which time the grievor was suspended. The Union shall raise a preliminary objection at the hearing of June 5th, 1995 , that the discipline is void ab initio. It is evident that Ms . Mitchell was referring to both grievances although the only one submitted to arbitration was the discharge grievance . 9 . Art . 26 . 3 , referred to in Ms . Mitchell' s letter is as follows : An employee who is required to attend a meeting for the purpose of discussing a matter which may result in disciplinary action being taken against the employee shall be made aware of the purpose of the meeting and his/her right to Union representation in advance of the 4 meeting. The employee shall be entitled to have a Union representative at such meeting provided this does not result in undue delay. 10 . By letter dated August 2 , 1994, Jean Chaykowsky, Grievance Officer for the Union, wrote to the Grievance Settlement Board requesting a "hearing by the Crown Employees' Grievance Settlement Board in accordance with art . 27 . 6 of the collective agreement, " with respect to the discharge grievance that is before me . 11 . As has been noted above, at the opening of the hearing, Ms . Mitchell, raised the preliminary objection referred to in Exhibit 7 , based on Mr. LaHay not having been made aware of the purpose of the June 13th meeting and of his right to Union representation as required by art . 26 . 3 . 12 . Mr. LaHay had been employed by the Employer for approximately 10 years, first as a casual employee in the capacity of a store clerk between 1984 and 1989, in which latter year he became a full-time employee. 13 . It was noted that, if necessary, evidence would be called with respect to Mr. LaHay' s havingi been disciplined while a casual employee without this fact having affected his being hired as a full-time employee . I was advised that the previous discipline also related to improper cashiering procedures and 5 that this did not affect Mr. LaHay' s being hired as a full-time employee . 14 . Ms . Mitchell indicated that, if necessary, evidence would be called that the Grievor, on June 13 , 1994, was working at his job as a store clerk when he was called into the Store Manager' s office (Gordon Holmes) at approximately 11 : 30 a .m. Mr. Holmes was said to have informed Mr. LaHay that he was to attend with him at his office after closing his cash. 15 . After the Grievor closed his cash, he and Mr. Holmes proceeded into the latter' s office followed by three other persons, two of whom were LOBO inspectors : Martha Dugas and David Hadlow, the third person being Police Sergeant Crockford, who was attached to the Orillia Police Department . 16 . After all of the persons in the room were seated, Mr. Holmes handed Mr. LaHay the letter of June 10, 1994 (Exhibit 4) . It was Ms . Mitchell' s position that the meeting of June 10 , 1994 represented the beginning of the process leading to the disciplinary response that culminated in Mr. LaHay being terminated. 17 . Mr. Holmes gave Exhibit 4 to Mr. LaHay at the beginning of the meeting and then asked him what he was doing on May 4th. The Grievor was supposed to have replied that he did not know what he 6 was doing then and inquired as to whether he was, in fact, working on that day. 18 . Mr. Holmes then informed the Grievor that he had been observed on May 4, 1994 while engaged in improper cashiering procedures in the form of taking cash from the cash drawer, and he was asked if he had any explanation for his actions . 19 . The Grievor is supposed to have replied: "I don' t know - maybe I was making change for myself . " 20 . Sergeant Crockford is then supposed to have said: " Is that your statement . " 21 . The Grievor is supposed to have responded: "I 'm not making a statement . " 22 . Sergeant Crockford then informed Mr. LaHay that he was being charged with theft under $1000 . 00 and placed him under arrest and read him his rights . 23 . Mr. Holmes then closed out the Grievor' s cash drawer, following which Sergeant Crockford asked the Grievor if he was prepared to co-operate, in which case he would not be placed in handcuffs . The Grievor indicated that he would co-operate and left the store with the officer for the police station where he 7 was fingerprinted. Later that day, Mr. LaHay came back to store #175 and voluntarily turned in his keys . 24 . Prior to the meeting of June 13th, an investigation of the Grievor had been conducted by the Employer at store #175 and he was secretly observed and his actions videotaped by an LCBO investigation team. The videotapes were reviewed toward the end of May or early in June of 1994, and the police were contacted before the meeting above referred to. 25 . Mr. LaHay consulted with a lawyer on June 14, 1994, prior to preparing his response to Exhibit 4 . Although Exhibit 4 is dated June 10, 1994, it was handed to the Grievor by Mr. Holmes on June 13 , 1994 in the manner above recorded. 26 . After the Grievor met with Union representatives, Exhibit 2 was filed on June 20 , 1994 . 27 . There were no other meetings held by the parties prior to the Grievor being discharged on June 23rd or thereafter to the date of the hearing on June 5 , 1995 . 28 . The criminal charges laid were dismissed on a preliminary motion. 8 29 . The position of the Union was that the discharge of the Grievor was void ab initio because the language of art . 26 . 3 of the collective agreement was said to give the Grievor a substantive right, and that failure on the part of the Employer to adhere to the requirements of that article voided the imposition of discipline . 30 . Accordingly, it was submitted that I had no jurisdiction to hear the matter on the merits, and that I should declare the discharge to be void ab initio, and that I did have jurisdiction which respect to the assessment of amounts owing to the Grievor and other relief . Mr. Drmaj , counsel for the Employer, made the following staements with respect to the facts stated by Ms . Mitchell in support of her application: 1 . The Employer accepted most of the facts set out by Ms . Mitchell . However, there were certain of them which it did not fully accept . 2 . Mr. Porter, the District Manager #15 responsible for store #175 in Orillia, had had discussions with LOBO security personnel, as a result of which it was decided to conduct an investigation of the Grievor' s conduct as a cashier through the use of video recording and surveillance techniques . Based on the t 9 initiatives taken, the Employer' s representatives concluded that Mr. LaHay had been "implicated in a breach of cashiering procedures established by the employer. " His actions were regarded as representing a "disciplinable event, " as well as amounting to possible criminal activity in the nature of theft . 3 . Mr. Porter had been informed about what had been observed and what was recorded on videotape concerning the "cashiering problems" and was also informed that the LCBO security personnel wished to proceed with the matter to see if criminal charges "could or should be laid. " 4 . A meeting was scheduled with representatives of the Orillia Police Department, and until the meeting was held the issue of discipline was "put in abeyance . " 5 . On or about June 10, 1994 the investigators went to see Sergeant Crockford of the Orillia Police Department who was in charge of the investigation of possible criminal activity. 6 . Mr. Porter was then informed by the Employer' s security personnel that there was sufficient evidence to lay criminal charges . 7 . It was Mr . Porter' s responsibility to be present at meetings involving discussions related to the laying of criminal charges . 10 8 . He was unable to attend the meeting of June 13 because of family problems and it was indicated that he would testify, if that became necessary, that that is the reason why the letter dated June 10th (Exhibit 4) was given to the Grievor on June 13 by Mr. Holmes . 9 . On June 10, 1994, Mr. Porter instructed Mr. Holmes that he was to attend a meeting on June 13th with the LCBO investigators at the Orillia police station in order to view the videotape, at which time a determination would be made as to whether criminal charges would be laid. 10 . Mr. Porter was also said to have advised Mr. Holmes to pick up a letter in Mr. Porter' s office in Barrie, being the Notice of Intended Discipline (Exhibit 4) . 11 . Mr. Holmes was said to have picked up the letter early in the morning of June 13 and then to have met with the LCBO investigators at the police station in Orillia along with Sergeant Crockford where they reviewed the videotape and other details of the investigation. It was at that time that Sergeant Crockford is supposed to have informed Mr. Holmes and the investigators that in his view there was sufficient evidence to lay criminal charges against Mr. LaHay. A discussion then took place relating to the way that the investigators, Mr. Holmes and 1 11 Sergeant Crockford would return to the store and confront and arrest Mr. Lahay. 12 . When Mr. Holmes returned to the store along with the investigators and Sergeant Crockford, he asked another employee to replace Mr. LaHay and instructed the Grievor to come to his office . 13 . Mr. Drmaj did not agree with Ms . Mitchell' s recitation of the order of events at the meeting of June 13th. In particular, he did not agree that the arrest took place only after the Notice of Intended Discipline was given to Mr. LaHay. It was the position of the Employer that the Grievor was told who the other persons at the meeting were immediately upon their entering the room and the purpose of their being present, including the handing to Mr. LaHay of the Notice of Intended Discipline (Exhibit 4) . It was suggested by Mr. Drmaj that the Grievor was escorted to the station where he was then placed under arrest and charged. 14 . Mr. Drmaj stated that evidence would be called, if necessary, that prior to the meeting of June 13th Mr. Porter, who had a good relationship with the Zone Representative of the Union, Keith O'Toole, advised Mr. O'Toole that an investigation was taking place and that some action would be taken. Mr. Drmaj 12 did not indicate that Mr. O' Toole was told what the action was about or that it related to the Grievor. 15 . After Mr. Porter returned to his office in Barrie on June 13 , 1994, he telephoned Mr. Holmes and was told that the Grievor had been arrested by Sgt . Crockford and that Mr. Holmes had given the Grievor Mr. Porter' s Notice of Intended Discipline (Exhibit 4) . 16 . Mr. Porter then informed Mr. O'Toole what had taken place. 17 . Evidence would be called, if necessary, that Mr. O' Toole never raised any issue about his not being present at the meeting of June 13th, nor did he ask for a further meeting or for "anything else . " 18 . The procedure followed by the Employer when discipline may be imposed is to issue a Notice of Intended Discipline, which asks the employee to whom it is given to furnish an explanation for his behaviour within three days . 19 . After receiving the employee' s response, or if none is forthcoming, the Employer then issues discipline, if warranted. During the period of the operation of the Notice of Intended Discipline, the employee continues to be paid. f 13 20 . After the Grievor filed his grievance (Exhibit 2) , the letter of discharge (Exhibit 6) was issued by Mr . Fisher, and that was the only discipline assessed in relation to the incident before me . In response to Mr. Drmaj ' s recitation of the Employer' s view of the facts, Ms . Mitchell stated: 1 . As a zone representative of the Union, Mr. O'Toole was responsible for filing grievances in the field and conducting second stage grievance meetings . Third stage grievance meetings are conducted at the "next layer, " which was identified as a duly authorized representative of the Union, as defined in s . 27 . 1 (a) of the provisions with respect to the grievance procedure contained in the collective agreement . 2 . In this case, subsequent to the June 13th meeting, there were no further meetings of any kind between the parties with respect to this matter where the Union might have informed the Employer of its position or amended the grievance . 3 . There were no pre-hearing meetings held, as it was agreed that there was no point in doing so in dismissal cases and there were no meetings where the Union had an opportunity to elaborate J on or amend the grievance . 14 4 . The Union has no knowledge of any discussions between Mr. O' Toole and Mr. Porter, and, in any event, it was the Union' s position that any discussions between them did not meet the requirements of art . 26 . 3 . 5 . Ms . Mitchell did not disagree with the order of the June 13th meeting as it was described by Mr. Drmaj . Her position was that whichever order is accepted the Employer chose to conduct a meeting where there was a discussion of a matter which might result in disciplinary action being taken against the Grievor, which meeting "triggers" art . 26 . 3 . 6 . Where a meeting such as the one that was conducted on June 13th takes place, it was normal for the Employer to notify the Union and to offer Union representation to the employee involved. Submissions Made by Way of Argument on Behalf of the Union: 1 . Article 26 . 3 grants a "substantive" right to employees and is not merely procedural . 2 . The language of art . 26 . 3 makes clear that the nature of the protection afforded to an employee is mandatory in nature, and that the Employer had a mandatory obligation to advise the Grievor of his right to Union representation. 15 3 . The Grievor was ordered by Mr. Holmes to attend a meeting with respect to "discussing a matter which [might] result in disciplinary action being taken against [him] . . . 11 even if Mr. Holmes did not fully articulate the full purpose of the meeting. 4 . The Grievor was given a Notice of Intended Discipline and charged with a criminal offence and arrested. 5 . The Employer could have separated the criminal matter from the employment offense, but both of them were intermingled at the meeting. 6 . It was clear that the Employer was, at some point proximate to the meeting, going to discipline the Grievor in the light of the intention to lay criminal charges, even if he was not informed that this was going to happen. It was emphasized that art . 26 . 3 did not use the words "shall result in disciplinary action" but instead used the words "may result in disciplinary action. " From the manner in which the meeting was conducted it was clear that both criminal and disciplinary action might be taken as a result of the meeting. 7 . Mr. Porter was also aware of the investigators, opinion that criminal charges should be laid against the Grievor. t 16 8 ." It was "inconceivable" that the meeting of June 13th was other than a meeting that might result in disciplinary action being taken against the Grievor, with the Employer treating the incident as representing a "very serious offense . " Accordingly, the Employer had an obligation to make Mr. LaHay aware of the purpose of the meeting and of his right to Union representation, in advance of the meeting. 9 . There was no impediment to the Employer informing the Grievor prior to the June 13th meeting that there was going to be a meeting on that date to discuss an investigation with respect to his conduct on May 4, 1994 and of his right to Union representation at the meeting. 10 . The nature of the conversation between Mr. Holmes and the Grievor, when the Grievor was asked to come to a meeting, did not convey to the Grievor any information that might cause him to request Union representation. 11 . There was no suggestion that the provision of Union representation would "result in undue delay. " 12 . The language of art . 26 . 3 was said to be "broad" so that any meeting relating to an investigation of a matter involving improper cashiering activities fell within its purview. 17 13 . Where a provision is substantive and the language mandatory, failure to adhere to, its provision "voids the discipline . " 14 . Reference was made to the case of Hickeson-tangs Supply Co. (1985) , 19 L.A. C. (3d) 379 (Burkett) , where the majority of the board stated (at . p . 392) : Although the meeting conducted between the company and Mr. Laidlaw was part of an investigation, the fact remains that it was a meeting with management within the meaning of either art . 6 . 02 or art . 6 . 06, and that Mr. Laidlaw was denied the representation to which he was entitled; the purpose of which has been described in Re Canadian Canners Ltd. And Int' l Assoc of Machinists (1974) , 5 L.A.C . (2d) 323 (Brandt) [at p . 3251 , as : . . . to ensure that the employee is fully advised of his rights and also to facilitate some discussion which might lead to an amicable settlement of the dispute, short of any formal action being taken. In the face of the meeting having been conducted without Mr. Laidlaw having union representation, as he was entitled to, and consistent with the cases that have held that discipline subsequently imposed in this case is null and void if the employee' s contractual right to due process is ignored, we hereby find that the discipline that was subsequently imposed in this case is null and void. The parties negotiate certain safeguards with respect to the manner in which discipline is to be imposed and/or the employer is to confront the employee with respect to any other matter under the collective agreement . These safeguards are in the nature of a contractual due process . While it may seem unfair to the employer to have its actions found to have been null and void, the due process provisions are central to the representation provided under the collective agreement and, in our view, there is no other way to give real meaning to them. 15 . Employees may be unable to properly act for themselves because of the stress of the moment . Reliance was had on Oueen 18 Elizabeth Hospital (1988) , 2 L.A.C. (4th) 1 (Davis) . In that case, at p. 6 , the arbitrator stated: . . . such representative will be in a better mental state at that moment to cope with the issue than the grievor and will be able to provide the grievor with timely advice . 16 . It was submitted that a Union representative might have intervened on the behalf of the Grievor and made submissions which raised mitigating factors . 17 . It was submitted that the provisions of art . 26 . 3 are to protect the Grievor, and it is not my role to conjecture about whether the presence or absence of a Union representative would have affected the result . 18 . It was submitted that Mr. O' Toole' s knowledge or lack of knowledge did not alter the obligation of the Employer under art . 26 .3 . Mr. Porter is alleged to have informed Mr. O' Toole about an investigation and that some action would be taken. In this case, the Grievor' s rights under art . 26 . 3 were not honoured and these rights must be honoured in advance of the meeting when he must be made aware of the purpose of the meeting and his right to Union representation. 19 . Evidence of a vague conversation between Mr. O' Toole and Mr. Porter does not meet the requirements of art . 26 . 3 . Mr. O' Toole was the wrong person for the Employer to communicate with in 19 order to achieve compliance with art . 26 . 3 . In any event, there was no indication of a clear "direction" to Mr. O' Toole by Mr. Porter as to when the meeting would take place and who and what would be involved, and there was no indication that Mr. O' Toole passed on to the Grievor any information that might arguably satisfy the Employer' s obligation under the latter article . 20 . At the very least, Mr. LaHay should have been told about the fact that Mr. O'Toole had been spoken to and informed about the nature of that conversation - which did not happen. 21 . Even if the Employer may delegate the responsibility to inform an employee as is required under art . 26 . 3 , here, the facts are vague, and it is not even certain whether the name of the employee under investigation was made known to Mr. O'Toole. 22 . Although the Union did not raise the violation of art . 26 . 3 until Ms . Mitchell wrote Exhibit 7 to Mr. Drmaj on May 25 , 1995, art . 26 . 3 is a substantive right and the Employer cannot rely on its own wrongdoing as a defense to the breach of the article . In any event, there must be a clear indication of waiver of the employee' s right under art . 26 . 3 . 23 . There was nothing in the facts to demonstrate that the Grievor was aware that he had the rights afforded him under art . c 20 26 . 3 , and he could not be expected to waive a right that he had not been made aware of . 24 . Because of the way in which the matter proceeded, the necessary "groundwork" had not been established by the Employer to support a claim of waiver. In the circumstances, there was no way for the Union to have amended the grievance to raise a specific violation of art . 26 . 3 . The only meeting at which the right could be raised was that of June 13 , 1994 . The way in which the Employer approached the matter indicated that there was nothing more to be done after the meeting of June 13 except to notify the Grievor that he was being discharged, which was accomplished through the mail . 25 . Reference was made to the language of the agreement in Hickeson -Langs, at p. 380 : 6 . 02 Representation An employee shall have the right of the assistance of a Union Representative in any matter under this Agreement concerning him and which requires his meeting with Management . 6 . 06 A Steward shall be present in any formal meeting between an employee and the Company, where the matter discussed is to become part of the employee' s performance record. 7 . 02 For a grievance to proceed to arbitration (as outlined below) the Union or the company, as the case may be, shall specify the provision 21 or provisions of this agreement that are alleged to have been violated. There is also the following signed letter of understanding: This will confirm the agreement between the Company and the Union on November 9 , 1983 concerning the administration of Section 6 . 06 of the Collective Agreement between Hickeson-tangs -- Toronto Branch and Teamsters Union Local 419 . In the administration of Section 6 . 06 , where a steward is not readily available, a senior bargaining-unit employee of the employee' s choice who is readily available will be present (in lieu of a steward) in any formal meeting between an employee and the Company. 26 . Reference was also made to the statement of the facts found at pp . 380-1 : The company, an institutional supplier of foods, had been encountering a theft problem at the time the grievor was discharged and had responded by increasing the surveillance of its premises . The sequence of events leading up to the discharge of the grievor is not disputed. Mr. Laidlaw was seen coming out of the warehouse at about 3 : 00 a.m. during the course of his shift on Friday, March 8, 1984, and placing some goods in his car. He was then brought back into the warehouse for questioning by Messrs . Lloyd (loss prevention) and Baird (district manager) . Mr. Laidlaw denied any wrongdoing and eventually agreed to go to his car in the presence of the two company officials . Twenty-five salmon steaks and four tins of lobster meat were found in Mr. Laidlaw' s car. He was again brought back into the warehouse and police were called without there being any further discussion between Mr. Laidlaw and the company officials . While waiting for the police to arrive Mr. Laidlaw asked for and was given the telephone number of Mr. Sean Floyd, the union business agent . He was allowed to call Mr. Floyd and to speak with him from a separate office . Shortly thereafter the police arrived and Mr. Laidlaw was arrested. He was taken to the police station where, he was asked if he wished to retain a lawyer, he asked and was allowed to call Mr. Floyd. Mr. Floyd, therefore, spoke with the grievor on two occasions during the 22 night in question. Mr. Floyd arrived at the warehouse after Mr. Laidlaw had been taken to the police station. The union did not advise the company of its intention to rely on art . 6 of the collective agreement until the day before the hearing. Employees have had the benefit of union representation at the investigation stage in the past, but this is the first theft case . 27 . Reference was also made to the statement of the board at p. 386 : We now turn to the doctrine of waiver. The doctrine of waiver has been applied by labour arbitrators in circumstances where, in the face of a procedural or technical defect in the filing or processing of a grievance, the affected party continues to process the grievance without objection. In these circumstances it has been held that the affected party, by its silence, has "waived" its right to rely on the procedural or technical defect . 28 . And to statements at p. 387 : Notwithstanding the judgment of the court [in Re Candle and Stevenson et al . (1984) 5 D.L .R. (4th) 676 , 44 O.R. (2nd) 656 (Ont . Div. Ct . ) ] arbitrators should be extremely careful in applying the doctrine of waiver to the exercise of substantive rights . This is so because employees are not usually represented by counsel during the grievance procedure and sometimes not at arbitration, and because the statutory purpose of labour arbitration is to resolve labour disputes arising from alleged breaches of a collective agreement . As distinct from a finding of waiver in respect of a procedural irregularity, which then allows the grievance to be heard on its merits, a finding of a waiver of a substantive right limits the scope of the hearing on the merits and/or deprives an employee of a right to which he or she would otherwise be entitled to rely upon. 29 . Further at pp . 388-90 : We are of the view that Mr. Laidlaw was entitled to union representation under art . 6 . 06 . Article 6 . 06 stipulates that "a steward shall be present in any private meeting between an employee and the company, 23 where the matter discussed is to become part of the employee' s performance record" . Where the matter to be discussed at a meeting between an employee and management officials is the company' s suspicion that the employee has engaged in an act of theft, the matter discussed, if the company suspicions are confirmed, is to become a part of the employee' s performance record; as it did in this case . We do not accept that so long as the meeting is investigatory in nature it cannot be a meeting within the meaning of art . 6 . 06 . The employer in Re Williams et al . and Treasury Board (Post Office Department) (1979) , 22 L.A.C. (2d) 94 (Abbott) , attempted to make the distinction between investigatory interview and a disciplinary interview as is made in this case . The relevant clause in the collective agreement in that case was entitled "Right to representation in case of disciplinary action" and provided that "An employee summoned for disciplinary reasons shall have the right to be accompanied by a representative of the Union" . The arbitrator found in that case that the interview of an employee by two postal inspectors in connection with the investigation of a fraud relating to overtime was a meeting at which the employee was entitled to union representation. The arbitrator in that case reasoned as follows [p . 991 : I am quite satisfied, on the evidence before me, that the postal inspectors intended their meeting with Mr. Williams to be an opportunity to further their investigation, by obtaining from him admissions of culpability or exculpatory information, and that they would take into account whatever they obtained from Mr. Williams in deciding whether disciplinary action should be taken against him. This is exactly the sort of interview of which an employee should have advance notice and should have the opportunity to be accompanied by a union representative . It is, therefore, precisely the sort of situation contemplated by the parties to the agreement in cls . 10 . 04 and 10 . 06 . We adopt this reasoning. A meeting at which an employee is summoned to answer questions from company officials with respect to whether or not he has committed a theft where, if the company' s suspicions are confirmed, the matter will become part of an employee' s performance record is a formal meeting within the meaning of art . 6 . 06 . It is required, therefore, that a steward be present . There was no steward present at the meeting between Mr . Laidlaw and the two senior company officials in the early morning s 24 hours of March 9, 1984 . The company is free to investigate suspected improper or unlawful conduct to whatever extent it desires . However, when it decides to confront an employee, as happened in this case, the employee is entitled to union representation under art . 6 . 06 of the collective agreement . Alternatively, the grievor was entitled to representation under art . 6 . 02 . Mr. Laidlaw was required to meet with management when he was apprehended in the parting-lot and, clearly, even if we accept that the meeting was in connection with an investigation and that a distinction can be made between an investigatory interview and a disciplinary interview for purposes of activating art . 6 . 06, it was nevertheless a meeting dealing with a matter under the collective agreement at which he was required to attend and, therefore, a meeting within the meaning of art 6 . 02 . We are satisfied, therefore, that Mr. Laidlaw was entitled to the representation provided under art . 6 . 02 when he met with management in the early hours of March 9, 1984 . 30 . Reference was also made to Milnes Fuel Ltd. (1981) , 29 L.A.C. (2nd) 427 (Brown) , where the provision relied upon was : The steward shall be present when an employee is dismissed, suspended or disciplinary action taken. In that case (at p . 428) the union took the position that the disciplinary action taken by the employer was void ab initio because there was no meeting concerning the grievor' s discharge at which a steward was present . 31 . In Milnes, at p . 430-1, reliance was had on Re Budd Automotive Canada Co . Ltd. (unreported) , February 1972 (Brown) : The provision in the collective agreement in the Budd case, supra, was as follows : 7 . 01 Any employee who is to receive a written warning, suspension or discharge shall be removed from his work station and taken to an office . He may, if he so desires, request and obtain the presence of his steward to { 25 represent him during such an interview. During such an interview the employee will be advised of the offence committed. The arbitrator in that case, in dealing with that provision in the circumstance where the union alleges that by non-compliance of the company with such a provision, the penalty warning was invalid, stated: The parties have developed a grievance procedure to handle alleged violations of the collective agreement and have agreed to certain time-limits within which the procedure must be followed. In that regard art . 6 . 10 provides in essence that if the grievance is not carried on to the next step within the time-limits, or within the limits otherwise agreed by the parties, the grievance is automatically settled on the basis of the last decision given on the grievance form. This provides for a penalty in the event of non- compliance with this procedure and in light of the most recent arbitration decisions in similar situations, it would follow that these are mandatory provisions which must be strictly applied. These form part of the rules of procedure for grievances . There is no such penalty provisions in the collective agreement covering the failure to comply with arts . 7 . 01 and 7 . 02 , but is that not simply a recognition that these provisions do not form part of the rules of procedures, but have been recognized by the parties as matters of right . The company has the substantive right under. the collective agreement to impose discipline against its employees . In the implementation of that right, it is provided that the company must comply with certain rules in the interest of the employees concerned which are set out in arts . 7 . 01 and 7 . 02 . I find these provisions to be completely independent of what may follow in the grievance procedure resulting from the company' s initial action and are the basic rights of an employee . He has been given by the parties the right to receive the charge against him in the privacy of an office; the right to know the penalty within the time stipulated in art . 7 . 02 and the right of representation. These are substantive rights which must be accorded to the employee if the right of the company to initiate discipline is to be given weight . The failure, then, to allow these rights to the employee is not a failure to follow procedure . . . In my view the parties have balanced the basic 26 rights of the company and the employee for the purpose of discipline by which the exercise of the company' s rights to discipline must be met with the employee' s right . It is not a matter going solely to the assessment of the penalty but goes to the very action of discipline itself . Article 7 . 01 provides that the charge shall be made known to the employee and by art . 7 . 02 the company assesses the penalty and is obligated to advise the employee within the time provided. The damage from the breach of such provision would be the negation of the employee' s basic contractual rights to the protection provided by the parties in disciplinary matters . The arbitrator went on to find that art . 7 . 01 was not procedural but, provided a substantive right to the employee which could not be denied by the company, and must be strictly applied. In the event of the failure by the company to grant such rights, the imposition of discipline was void ab initio. 32 . Further in Milnes, at p. 434 , the majority of the board stated: The clear intent of this article in our view is, that when an employee is as in this case, being dismissed and that decision has been taken, he is entitled to be told or advised in the presence of his steward which might be for the purpose of representation at that time or for protecting any other rights he may have with regard to the grievance procedure, but the nature of that protection afforded to the employee by the parties is representational in effect . To omit that right, in our opinion, is an omission of a substantive right and not merely a procedural step under the grievance procedure, default of which might be the subject of relief through the provisions of the Labour Relations Act, R. S .O . 1970, c . 232 . The agreement does not provide that in the absence of this step being fulfilled the disciplinary action is a nullity, but the effect of failure to comply with a substantive right of a mandatory nature contained in the collective agreement conflicts with the basic rights of the employees in relation to the right of the company subject to the term of the collective agreement, to impose discipline . 27 33 . To the same effect are Re Toronto Western Hosipi.tal (1985) , 19 L.A. C. (3rd) 191 (M.G. Picher) at p . 191 and p. 201 ; Re St . Joseph' s Hospital (Brantford) (1987) , 28 L.A. C. (3rd) 408 (P . C. Picher) at pp . 411 and 419 ; Re Weetabix of Canada (Mfg. ) Ltd. (1987) , 31 L.A. C. (3rd) 444 (Draper) at p . 447 (where the board also stated: "Waiver connotes knowledge of a right and the intention to surrender or abandon it . " ) ; Re Oueen Elizabeth Hospital (1988) , 2 L.A.C. (4th) l, ' at pp. 2 and pp . 4-8 ; Re Glengarry Memorial Hospital (1990) , 11 L.A.C. (4th) 325 at p . 329 and p . 331 ; Re Valdi Foods (1987) Inc . (1990) , 16 L.A.C. (4th) 318 (Brandt) at p. 323 ; and Re Brewster Transport Co . Ltd. (1992) , 26 L.A. C. (4th) 240 (Tettensor) . 34 . It was submitted that the fact that the Employer paid the Grievor from the time he was no longer at work on June 13th to the time of his discharge on June 23rd represented no "real distinction. " It was submitted that the discipline commenced on June 13th, and reference was made to the words "that as a result of these events disciplinary action may be taken against you, " in Exhibit 4 . If the payment to an employee in the circumstances of the Grievor during a period of suspension could change the result, then this would "take the guts out of art . 26 . 3 . " The "disclaimer" that discipline might follow cannot assist the Employer. 28 Mr. Drmaj made the following submissions by way of argument on behalf of the Employer: 1 . That the issue before me is whether art . 26 . 3 is procedural or substantive . 2 . If substantive, it covered such a narrow range of situations that it is not applicable to the facts before me and is merely directory. 3 . If I found that art . 26 . 3 was substantive and mandatory, then it concerned only the notice of intended discipline. The meeting of June 13 did not represent a "disciplinary encounter" so as to void the discharge if the meeting was not carried out in accordance with the requirements of art . 26 .3 . 4 . If I found that the meeting of June 13 , 1994 was disciplinary in nature and within the purview of art . 26 . 3 , then Exhibit 4 related only to the June 13th suspension that was grieved in Exhibit 2 and not to Exhibit 3 , the discharge grievance . 5 . The discharge of the Grievor that followed the filing of Exhibit 2 led to an additional grievance being filed on June 28th (Exhibit 3) , which represented an entirely different matter from f 29 the Grievor' s suspension meted out in exhibit 4 , and was unrelated to the meeting of June 13th. 6 . There was no requirement for a meeting to be convened in order to deal with the actual discharge or discipline of the Grievor. Accordingly, the Letter of Discharge (Exhibit 6) was valid. If I rejected all of the other arguments made on behalf of the Employer, only the suspension might be declared invalid. 7 . The Union, by its conduct in not raising the matter relating to art . 26 . 3 until May 25, 1995 , waived any breach of that article by the Employer. 8 . If I rejected the argument of the Employer based on waiver, then any remedy afforded the Grievor should consider when the objection was raised (on May 25., 1995) and restrict relief to the period from that date. 9 . A substantive right in the Grievor is only created by clear and unequivocal language . Reference was made to such substantive rights as the right to Union representation during the grievance procedure and in connection with seniority rights, where the language of the collective agreement was said to be clear and unequivocal . 10 . Reference was made to art . 27 . 3 (a) (ii) : 30 Unless otherwise agreed between the employee and his/her supervisor, a meeting in respect of an employee' s complaint shall only be attended by the Ar employee and his/her supervisor. 11 . This provision is found in art . 27, which is headed "Grievance Procedure . " Art . 27 . 3 is headed "Stage 1 (Complaint Stage) " and art . 27 . 3 (a) (i) provides, inter alia: An employee who has a complaint or a difference shall discuss the complaint or difference with his/her supervisor, as designated by the Employers 12 . It was submitted that art . 27 . 3 (a) (ii) specifically deals with the subject of who is to be present at the meeting referred to. This was said to be unlike the provisions of art . 26 . 3 , where there is no specific reference to who must be present at the meeting. 13 . It was submitted that art . 26 . 3 should not be "isolated" from the rest of the grievance procedure, where references to who should be present at meetings are "clear and unequivocal . " 14 . It was submitted that the facts of the case before me should be distinguished from cases where the meeting involved a disciplinary response . The case before me was said to involve a situation where there might be a disciplinary response, but not necessarily so. 15 . It was submitted that it was not possible to create a "partial substantive right . " l 31 16 . It was submitted that an interpretation such as the one sought by the Union would discourage meetings : that is, if it was always necessary for an employee to have Union representation. 17 . Art . 26 . 3 is directory and procedural and has as its purpose assuring, where certain matters arise that might require the imposition of discipline, that the affected employee is made aware of the purpose of the meeting and of his/her right to Union representation in advance of the meeting. However, failure to adhere to the requirement would not necessarily void any subsequent discipline that is meted out . 18 . An examination of the facts demonstrates that the meeting was not called for the purpose of "discussing a matter which [might] result in disciplinary action, " and hence was not one envisaged by art . 26 . 3 , but was for the purpose of effecting the Grievor' s arrest in the Store Manager' s office rather than in the "open store, " so as to insure privacy, and also to take him into custody, there being no obligation to hold such a meeting as is referred to in art . 26 . 3 . 19 . Handing Exhibit 4 to the Grievor at the meeting was only peripheral to the purpose of the meeting, which was to effect his arrest and to enable him to be taken into police custody. l 32 20 . Where a meeting is held for a purpose other than "discussing a matter which may result in disciplinary action being taken" or for combined purposes, where the issuance of a Notice of Intended Discipline is peripheral to the main purpose, art . 26 . 3 can only be viewed as being procedural . 21 . The word "shall" as found in art . 26 . 3 does not always create a mandatory obligation. 22 . Art . 26 . 3 can be interpreted as furnishing an option in favour of the Grievor, but the question of undue delay, being undefined, leaves the matter of calling in Union representation in the hands of management . 23 . If I conclude that the provisions of art . 26 . 3 confer a substantive right on the Grievor, then it is necessary to examine the facts to see if they fit within the provisions of that article . It was submitted that on the facts before me I should not find that there was a meeting for the purpose of discussing a matter which might result in disciplinary action being taken. This was said to be reinforced by the statement in Exhibit 4 : "This is not a disciplinary response . . . " 24 . If I find that the meeting of June 13 was one called for the purpose of discussing a matter which might result in disciplinary action being taken, then the action then taken by the Employer c 33 was grieved by Exhibit 2 on June 20th, and that grievance relates to the suspension effected by Exhibit 4 . A "technical" failure to comply with the requirements of art . 26 . 3 in connection with the meeting of June 13 , 1994 cannot affect the validity of the subsequent discharge of the Grievor in Exhibit 6 . The "technical" failure only affected the suspension, which was a separate issue that was grieved as such. 25 . If I find that the suspension meted out in Exhibit 4 was the kind of "disciplinary action" envisaged by art . 26 . 3 and was void ab initio, then the Grievor received "all wages, benefits and seniority lost . " The discharge meted out by Exhibit 6 was an entirely separate matter unrelated to the meeting of June 13th. 26 . If I find that the discharge of the Grievor, meted out in Exhibit 6, is a matter that flows directly from the meeting of June 13th, then any breach of art . 26 . 3 had been waived and can no longer be pursued. 27 . If I find that art . 26 . 3 is applicable to the facts of this case, then Mr. O' Toole and/or the Grievor knew or ought to have known as early as the Notice of Intended Discipline that the meeting of June 13 would involve a discussion of matters which might result in the Grievor' s being disciplined. It was submitted that either or both of them were aware of the investigation and of the videotaped evidence . It was submitted t 34 that the Grievor had a duty to raise the provisions of art . 26 . 3 when he was told about the events that were being investigated and it was evident that discipline might follow. The Grievor should have raised the provisions of art . 26 . 3 when Exhibit 2 was filed and later when Exhibit 3 was filed, and at the latest by August 8 , 1994 when the Union waived the right to go through the further stages of the grievance procedure and agreed to proceed directly to the Grievance Settlement Board (Exhibit 8) . 28 . Reference was made to Alcan Wire and Cable, an unreported case decided by the majority of a board chaired by S .A. Tacon on July 20, 1989 . 29 . The provision of the collective agreement in the Alcan case considered by the board was : 25 . 07 Where a counselling or disciplinary meeting is to take place between a supervisor and a bargaining unit employee and such meeting shall result in a written disciplinary notation, then such meeting shall, where practicable, and if the employee so requests, take place in the presence of a Union steward. 30 . The union in Alcan argued that the employer failed to comply with the procedural steps required in order to properly terminate the grievor, and hence the grievor should be reinstated "in consequence of this procedural defect . " 31 . Reference was made to the statement of the majority of the board, at p . 11 of Alcan: t 35 In the instant case the board views the question of a procedural defect as one which may properly be raised at the hearing for the first time only on the basis that, if that argument is ultimately successful, the relief granted should not predate the point at which the question was first raised. To hold otherwise, would result in substantial prejudice to the company. Prior to the hearing, the company was unaware that question was in issue . Yet, it is the company which might well be financially liable by way of a compensation order for that entire period. To so limit the remedy, however, would adequately address the issue of prejudice . (Emphasis in original) 32 . Reliance was also had on the statement of the majority of the board at pp . 12-13 of Alcan: The board must next consider the language of Article 25 . 07 to determine whether that article confers, as the union contends, a substantive right to the presence of a steward in the circumstances of this case so that the absence of the steward renders the subsequent termination void. The relevant portion of Article 25 . 07 is worth repeating here : " . . . then such meeting shall, where practicable, and if the employee so requests, take place in the presence of a union steward. " The board notes that the practicability of a union steward' s attending was not in issue . The phrase "and if the employee so requests" must be given meaning and that meaning is clear - an employee request is a precondition to the representational right . Quite simply, the right is not absolute nor can it be said that the language confers an obligation on the company to bring the "option" to the employee' s attention prior to, or at the commencement of, the meeting: see Weston Bakeries Limited (Chatham, Ont . )_ (unreported, September 26, 1988) (MacDowell) and the cases cited therein. While it is conceivable that there may arise circumstances wherein those words should not be given effect if, for example, the company were to be estopped from relying on that precondition, that is not the case herein. The grievor had his thirty day appraisal in February and knew the nature of the meeting scheduled for March 30 . At the February meeting, his performance was reviewed and his deficiencies discussed. Most tellingly, the grievor knew that "if he didn' t pull up his socks, he i 36 would not last . " It cannot be said that the grievor could not have anticipated a possible outcome of the March meeting would be his termination. There is no dispute that the grievor did not request the presence of a union steward at the meeting. The board has no authority to amend the collective agreement to modify language from a precondition which has not been satisfied to an absolute right to representation or an affirmative obligation on the company to inform the grievor of the wording of Article 25 . 07 or his option to request a union representation at the meeting. Thus, the board rejects the union' s position on the first preliminary motion. 33 . Reliance was also had on Pharma Plus Drug Marts Limited, an unreported case decided by N.B. Satterfield on December 20, 1993 . In the Pharma Plus case, the grievor was terminated for breach of a company rule : Every sale must be registered and a receipt given to the customer. Failure to register sales will result in termination. 34 . One of the issues raised in the case involved art . 31 . 01 (a) : Where an employee is to be interviewed by the Company or Security regarding discipline or dismissal, the employee may request the Union Steward or another bargaining unit employee to be present to observe the discussion and such request shall be granted. 35 . The alleged breach of art . 31 was said by the union in Pharma Plus to void the discipline imposed ab initio. 36 . At p . 8 of Pharma Plus, the arbitrator stated: With respect to clause 31 . 01 (a) , whether the clause falls within that group of clauses which arbitrators have said creates substantive rights, or whether it falls within the group which are procedural only and therefore directory, I find that there has been no breach of clause 31 . 01 (a) of the collective agreement . The grievor is a steward and was aware of c 37 his collective agreement right to the kind of representation described in clause 31 . 01 (a) . The meaning of the phrase " . . . the employee may request . . . " is clear in the context of the clause . If an employee wants the benefit of the representation described, it is a precondition to that right that the employee asks to be represented by a Union steward or another bargaining unit employee . The right to that representation is not absolute because of that precondition. 37 . Reference was also made to The Steel Company of Canada (Rayner) , an unreported decision dated August 29 , 1990 , where the grievor had been discharged by a registered letter dated August 10 , 1987, and where, at the outset of the hearing, union counsel indicated that there was a preliminary objection claiming that the discharge was null and void because the employer had failed to follow art . 9 : 11 of the collective agreement . 38 . Art . 9 : 11 of the Steel Company agreement is as follows : 9 : 11 - No employee other than a probationary employee shall be discharged without first being given seven (7) days notice except in cases of serious misconduct, when discharge shall be effective immediately. An employee who is. being notified of his/her discharge may elect to have a departmental Chief Steward or Steward present . In the event that a departmental Chief Steward or Steward is not present at the time the employee is notified of his/here [sic] discharge, the Company will notify the Chief Steward of all immediate discharges or notice of discharge given to employee in his/her department, excepting probationary employees, with [sic] forty-eight (48) hours after such discharge or notice of discharge has been effected. Grievances relating to notice of discharge or discharge may be initiated at Step No. 2 of the Grievance Procedure and may be appealed directly to Step No. 3 . 39 . At pp . 4-5 , the board stated: l 38 The first part requires 7 days notice of discharge (probationary employees apart) except in cases of serious misconduct . The part has no bearing on the objection before us and can, at this point, be disregarded although for completeness it should be noted that in an earlier award, Re Stelco 18 L.A. C . (3d) 353 (Kennedy) this language was held to be directory and procedural and lack of notice did not render the discharge a nullity. The second part, and the part relied on by the Union, permits an employee who is being notified of his discharge to have a Union Steward present . The third part requires the Company to notify, within 48 hours, the Chief Steward of all immediate discharges or notice of discharge (save probationary employees) "in the event that a departmental Chief Steward of Steward is not present at the time the employee is notified of his/her discharge" (emphasis added in Stelco) . The latter two parts of Article 9 : 11 were canvassed in an earlier award between the parties (McLaren, January 1984) but that case does little to assist the Board. However, it does note that there is no obligation on the Company to put an employee to an election to have a Union representative present . The gist of the Union objection is that the Company had to have a meeting with the grievor and that the grievor had to have an opportunity to elect to have Union representation present . Mr. Smith said that the right to an election would be meaningless if there was not an implied right to a discharge meeting. He also suggested that the grievor' s refusal to attend the Company' s premises in possible violation of his bail order was reasonable . We agree with the latter submission but not the former. 40 . At pp . 5-6 of the Steel Compaq case the board concluded: Implicit, indeed a cornerstone, in the Union' s argument is that there must be a meeting before discharge can be effective although Mr. Smith conceded that there may be very unusual circumstances where a meeting cannot be held. However, in the normal case a meeting must be held and the employee given his election. He relied on the leading case of Re Milnes Fuel Oil 29 L.A.C . (2d) 428 (Brown) where the agreement required that an employee to be discharged "shall be 39 removed from his work station and taken to an office" where he could elect to have Union representation. This case was followed in Re Clarke Institute 20 L .A.C. (3d) 193 (Knopf) , Re Corp . of the City of Toronto 24 L.A.C . (3d) 115 (Joliffe) , Re St . Joselh Hospital 28 L.A.C. (3d) 408 ; and Re Automotive Industries (unreported, Rahim, 1988) . Although the Milnes Fuel case appears correctly decided on the language of that collective agreement, the other decisions may be doubtful to the extent that the decisions do, or do not, determine a threshold issue . That issue is whether the agreement requires a disciplinary meeting to be held. In the Clarke Institute case and the City of Toronto decision the answer would appear that a meeting was required and where a meeting is required, if the collective agreement permits or requires Union representation, failure to allow such representation may render the discharge a nullity. However, we must first decide whether a meeting is required under the terms of this Collective Agreement . If there is no need for a meeting, the election of Union representation is not in issue and the discharge cannot be challenged solely on the basis of Article 9 : 11 . In Re Cambridge Towel 66 O.R. (2d) 793 the Divisional Court sounded a cautionary note in overextending the reasoning such as was found in Milnes Fuels and declaring discharges a nullity because of failure to comply with all notification or notice provisions of the Collective Agreement . It is trite to say that a Board should not stand on procedural technicalities and fail to hear the merits of the dispute unless the Collective Agreement makes it clear that any procedure set out therein must be followed as a condition precedent to the action in dispute no matter which side raises the technicality. However, in this case, we do not believe that there has been even a technical violation of Article 9 : 11 . 41 . In the Steel Company case, although the grievor had been requested to attend at the plant for an interview before he was discharged, no such interview meeting took place for reasons which are not material here . 1 40 42 . After stating that the union could only succeed if the board found that art . 9 : 11 required a discharge meeting, the board stated, at p . 7 : . . . If no such meeting is required, there has been no violation in the instant case . As previously stated nowhere in Article 9 : 11 is there an express statement that a meeting be held. This lack of expression is contrasted with the language used for notice of discharge to the employee, i .e . , "No employee shall be discharged without 7 days notice" and for notification to the Chief Steward "the Company will notify the chief steward. . .within 48 hours" . Indeed, the very wording of the Article contemplates that there may be discharges where there is no steward present . This lack of stewardship could result from either the employee electing not to have Union representation or because there has been no discharge meeting. Both possibilities exist under the present language. However, there is no language that mandates a meeting. (Emphasis in original) 43 . The final submission made on behalf of the Employer was that even if it failed in all of the above submissions, and the discharge is declared to be void ab initio, there is nothing to prevent the Employer from properly repeating the exercise and reissuing "appropriate discipline . " It was submitted that requiring such a procedure did not "make a lot of sense in this kind of case . " See, Board of Governors of the Riverdale Hospital (1983) , 11 L.A. C. 267 (Brandt) 44 . At pp. 277-8 of the Riverdale Hospital case, the board stated: In reaching my conclusion I am mindful of the fact that this award does little more than compensate the grievor and reinstate him as a probationary employee without any right to grieve in the event that the hospital i 41 should, upon this award, set out to accomplish the termination of the grievor in accordance with the requirements of art . 13 . 02 (a) . 45 . Reference was also made to VS Services Ltd. , Vending Services (1990) , 17 L.A.C. (4th) 339 (Brandt) . That case dealt with the question, apparently one that had not been dealt with in the arbitral jurisprudence, whether or not, once it has been determined by a board of arbitration that a purported discharge was null and void for failure to comply with a provision in the collective agreement requiring union representation on the imposition of discipline, an employer can, in the absence of any new and different ground for discharge, discharge the employee again in full compliance with the provisions requiring union representation. 46 . After finding that his earlier Riverdale Hospital case (at P . 334) indicated "by implication at least, that there may be circumstances in which it is quite proper for an employer to correct its earlier errors and act again on the basis of the same events as had earlier motivated it to act, " the board concluded that this was a case where the employer should be permitted to properly carry out the requirements of the collective agreement and terminate the employee . Argument in re-Ply made on behalf of the Union: 42 1 . The meeting of June 13 , 1994 was not just for the purpose of facilitating the arrest of the Grievor. If that were the intention, Sergeant Crockford could have been furnished with an office or with the home address of the Grievor, and it was unnecessary for anyone associated with the Employer to be in attendance . The Employer did not choose to do that, but instead brought the Grievor into the Manager' s office at his home store and related (through the Manager) the details of an offence that clearly could be the subject of discipline, in the presence of two investigators for the Employer as well as Sergeant Crockford of the Orillia Police detachment . 2 . When the parties negotiated art . 26 . 3 , they envisaged a situation where, if the Employer chose to have such a meeting as is there described, the employee involved had certain rights : to be informed in advance of the meeting of its purpose and of his right to Union representation. 3 . It was submitted that there was a discussion in which Mr. Holmes informed the Grievor that he had been observed involved in improper cashiering procedures on May 4, 1994 and asked him for an explanation to justify his observed behaviour. Because of the way the Employer to chose to conduct the meeting, it represented one where disciplinary action might be taken against the Grievor, whether or not it had another purpose . i 43 4 . Although Exhibit 4 states that it is not disciplinary in nature, this does not matter because art . 26 . 3 refers to "a matter which may result in disciplinary action. " The matter, in this case, might, and, in fact did, result in disciplinary action being taken against the Grievor. 5 . Reference was made to Weetabix of Canada (Mfg. ) Ltd. (1987) , 30 L.A.C. (3rd) 444 (Draper) , where the language of the agreement was said to be similar to that of art . 26 . 3 : 9 . 09 An employee when called to a meeting with Management, where disciplinary action may result, shall have the right to have a Steward or Union official in attendance; however said employee shall also have the right to waive the necessity of the attendance of such Steward or Union official . 6 . The arbitrator in the Weetabix case found, at p. 448 , that art . 9 . 09 was mandatory and conferred a substantive right and that the company' s failure to comply with the article rendered the discharge of the Grievor void ab initio. 7 . In response to the Employer' s argument that if there was a meeting within the meaning of art . 26 . 3 it was not disciplinary in nature and only related to a suspension pending further investigation, it was submitted that the discharge of the Grievor that followed was the natural result of what had taken place at the meeting and was tainted by the violation of the Grievor' s rights under art . 26 . 3 . The fact that there were no further meetings demonstrated that the Employer did not need to have a 44 further meeting to obtain information. That information was already within its knowledge on June 13 , 1994 . 8 . Because the provisions of art . 26 . 3 are substantive in nature, an allegation that the Grievor' s rights under that article had been violated can be raised to the date of the hearing. Discussion and Decision 1 . The Union, having raised the issue as to whether art . 26 . 3 had been violated, has the burden of proving that that was the case . 2 . Because there was no written agreed statement of facts, it was necessary for me to review my notes to see whether there was a difference between the versions of the facts as presented by the parties . 3 . It is not unusual for parties to argue motions such as the one before me without eliciting viva voce evidence, but to argue on the basis of agreed facts, either in writing or as presented to the board orally. In this case the later was done . After Ms . Mitchell had reviewed the facts from the Union' s perspective, Mr. Drmaj , while stating that he agreed with most of those facts, 45 indicated that he took issue with some of them and presented facts that he believed had not been fully dealt with by Ms . Mitchell, which additional facts she did not dispute . 4 . In his opening statement, Mr. Drmaj stated that there was an investigation concerning certain shortages from cash in Store 175 in Orillia where the Grievor worked. Mr. Porter, the District Manager, was said to have had discussions with LCBO security representatives, and a decision was made to engage in certain investigation procedures : surveillance of the Grievor, including surveillance through the use of video cameras . It was as a result of the implementation of these investigation procedures that the Grievor was said to be implicated - on May 4, 1994 - in a breach of the Employer' s cashiering procedures, which breach Mr. Drmaj identified as being both a "disciplinable event and also [as representing] criminal activity. " 5 . Mr. Drmaj stated that the criminal activity represented the "possibility of theft" having occurred. Mr. Porter was said to have been informed about the result of the video surveillance and that the LOBO security personnel wished to proceed to receive advice from the police as to whether criminal charges "could or should be laid" because of what the Grievor was said to have done . 46 6 . According to Mr. Drmaj ' s version of the evidence, the question of discipline was said to have been placed in abeyance when, on June 10th, Mr. Porter was given the information relating to the investigation, above referred to. 7 . Mr. Drmaj ' s version of what took place was that on June 101Ch Mr. Porter had told Mr. Holmes, the Store Manager, that he was to attend on Monday June 13 , 1994 with the LCBO investigators at the Orillia police station to "view the videotapes of the Grievor and be present while a determination was made as to whether criminal charges should be laid and "how this was to be done . " Mr. Holmes was also said to have been told by Mr. Porter that there would be a letter for the Grievor in Mr. Porter' s office in Barrie (Exhibit 4) , which Mr. Holmes was to pick-up and deliver to the Grievor on June 13th. 8 . Mr. Holmes is supposed to have attended on Sgt . Crockford at the police station in Orillia on the morning of June 13 , along with the two LCBO investigators, at which time Sgt . Crockford reviewed the videotape and the details of the investigation. Sergeant Crockford then informed Mr. Holmes and the investigators that there was sufficient evidence to lay charges against the Grievor. It was then decided to return to the store in order to confront and arrest the Grievor. E 47 9 . Mr. Drmaj stated that there was a dispute between himself and Ms . Mitchell as to exactly what had taken place at the "meeting" on June 13 , 1994 . 10 . Mr. Drmaj stated that he did not agree with Ms . Mitchell' s description of what had taken place at the meeting: that a discussion with respect to matters relevant to the "Notice of Intended Discipline" occurred first, with the "flow" of the meeting then proceeding to' the charging of the Grievor with the offence of theft under $1000 . 00 and his arrest . He raised, but did not pursue, the question as to whether the Grievor' s arrest took place first . 11 . Mr. Drmaj stated position was that immediately before anything else happened at the June 13 meeting the Grievor was told who the other persons at the meeting were; the purpose of their presence; was then given the letter of June 10 , 1994 (Exhibit 4) ; and was then escorted to the police station by Sgt .Crockford, charged and placed under arrest . 12 . I note that Mr. Drmaj , when he said that the Grievor was informed of the "purpose" of the meeting, did not elaborate on what the Grievor was exactly told about the "purpose . " 13 . Ms . Mitchell stated that after the persons in the manager' s office were seated on June 13 , 1994, Mr. Holmes gave the Grievor 48 Exhibit 4 . The Grievor was then said to have been asked by Mr. Holmes : "What were you doing on May 4th? " and Mr. Drmaj did not deny that this statement was made . Nor did he deny the statement attributed to the Grievor in response to the question: That he did not know what he was doing on that day and could not recall if he was at work at that time . Mr. Holmes was then said to have advised the Grievor that he was observed engaged in improper cashiering procedures, in that he was observed taking cash from the drawer and was asked if he had any explanation for his actions . The Grievor is then said to have responded that he did not know what he was doing, and that he might have been making change for himself . 14 . Sergeant Crockford is then supposed to have asked the Grievor if that was his statement, and the Grievor is supposed to have replied that he was not making a statement, and it was at this time that Sergeant Crockford took over the meeting and arrested the Grievor. For the purposes of this case I find that there is no particular significance in the Grievor' s response that he was not making a statement . 15 . I note that Mr. Drmaj did not say that he was disagreeing with the recitation of the facts as given by Ms . Mitchell but stated that he wished to add some additional facts and reorder some of the events to show that they had taken place in a different order. 49 16 . I am satisfied that the meeting had a dual purpose : to arrest the Grievor and "for the purpose of discussing a matter which [might] result in disciplinary action being taken against" him. It was unnecessary to hold a meeting in the Store Manager' s office just to arrest the Grievor or to have present the Manager and the two LCBO investigators . Questions related to a purely criminal investigation could have been asked by Sergeant Crockford without anyone else being present . The Grievor could have been arrested at his home or taken to the police station and there placed under arrest without the further involvement of Mr. Holmes or the two LCBO investigators . The questions that Mr. Holmes put to the Grievor were more consistent with his interest in securing information related to the Grievor' s breach of the Employer' s cashiering procedures and to facilitate the process leading to the imposistion of discipline . Whatever other purpose the meeting may have had, as conducted by Mr. Holmes it also became a meeting to discuss "a matter which may result in disciplinary action being taken" against the Grievor. If the meeting only was concerned with confronting the Grievor with respect to his commission of a criminal offence, it would be expected that only Sgt . Crockford would be in attendance and in complete control of the meeting. The evidence was otherwise, and I am satisfied that the meeting had two purposes : one related to an employment offence that could lead to discipline, the other being related to the commission of a criminal offence . 50 17 . Although there is nothing in the collective agreement that requires the Employer to hold a meeting "for the purpose of discussing a matter which [might] result in disciplinary action" against an employee, once such a meeting is held it must be held in compliance with the provisions of art . 26 . 3 . See The Steel Company of Canada case, above, at pp . 7-8 : This conclusion does not render the second part of the Article nugatory. If a meeting is convened, and if the employee is denied Union representation after electing to have representation, the rationale of Re Milnes Fuel could operate . Surely, the purpose of this part of the Article is two-fold: first, it informs the Union of the discharge but that object is again achieved by the third part of the Article . Second, it ensures that the employee, on the spur of the moment, does not make a statement that may inculpates him or her. However, if there is no meeting, there is no need to protect against inculpatory against inculpatory statements . In conclusion then we believe that Article 9 : 11, or at least that part relied on by the Union has no application if no discharge meeting is held and that Article 9 : 11 does not require such a meeting as a condition precedent to discharge . If a meeting is held and the employee denied representation, Re Milnes Fuel may then apply. 18 . Although it is necessary to pay close attention to the wording of the particular provisions of the article said to have been violated so as to lead to the conclusion that the discipline imposed is void ab initio, I am satisfied that art . 26 . 3 represents a substantive and not procedural requirement in accordance with the line of cases following Milnes Fuel Oil Ltd. (above) . { 51 19 . In the Alcan case, because the clear language of the agreement created no such obligation, the arbitrator found, at p . 12 , that the article in question did not to confer "an obligation on the company to bring the ' option' to the employee' s attention prior to or at the commencement of the meeting. . . . " 20 . In the Pharma Plus case, the board, at p . 8 , held that it did not matter whether the article in question created substantive rights or fell within "the group which are procedural only and therefore directory, " because it was "a precondition to that the right that the employee asks to be represented by a union steward or other bargaining unit employee . " 21 . In the Steel Company of Canada case, there was, as in this case, no requirement that the Employer hold a meeting: in that case to deal with the discharge of the employee . At p. 7 , the board stated: if no such meeting is required, there has been no violation in the instant case . But, as was noted above, the situation is different when a meeting is held and the subject matter of the meeting falls within the provisions of the article . In the Steel Company case, no meeting was held, and there was " no need to protect against inculpatory statements . " (At pp . 7-8) 22 . Art . 26 . 3 creates a substantive right which can only be waived by the employee involved. That right is to make the 52 affected employee aware of the purpose of the meeting and his/her right to Union representation in advance of the meeting. " The Grievor never waived his rights . Even if Mr. O' Toole was able to do so, I cannot find this to have been the case . In any event, I cannot find that Mr. O'Toole had sufficient information about which employee was involved or of the exact nature of the matter being investigated to be able to make an informed decision. In the Riverdale Hospital case, above referred to, the board referred to the following article (13 . 02 (a) ) found in the collective agreement : An employee may be discharged or suspended only for just cause . when an employee is discharged or suspended he shall be given the reason in the presence of a representative of the Union. Such employee and the Union shall be advised promptly in writing of the reason for such discharge or suspension. 23 . The board stated at p. 275-6 : Since the right provided for in art . 13 . 02 (a) is a right which is personal to the employee it could be waived by the employee . 24 . At p. 276, the board stated that it was insufficient that the union representative had been advised that disciplinary action was going to be taken and then to ask her to remain in the area in the event that the grievor wished assistance . "The fairer procedure would have been to ask the grievor, in the presence of the steward, whether or not he wanted union representation. " 53 25 . In this case, the Grievor was not made aware of the purpose of the meeting at the outset, nor was he informed of his right to Union representation. 26 . The right to Union representation is not a mere formality. In drafting art . 26 . 3 , the parties had in mind the possibility that through Union intervention the meeting might result in the Employer taking actions different from those that might be taken in circumstances where the' employee had no Union representation. In the Riverdale Hospital case, above, the board stated, at p . 278 : The rights granted under art . 13 . 02 (a) to employees are important rights and represent an important feature of their job security. It cannot now be known whether or not, had the employer complied with art . 13 . 02 (a) at the time that it chose to terminate the grievor, the representations of the union steward might have persuaded them to do otherwise . The action of the employer prevented the grievor from enjoying the opportunity of having union representation at a time when his employment was terminated. The damage which he suffered as a result of that action is, in my opinion, damage for which he ought to be compensated. 27 . The fact that the Grievor was, by Exhibit 4 , furnished with an opportunity to submit a written statement by registered mail explaining his actions with respect to the alleged improper cashiering procedures on May 4, 1994 does not overcome the breach of his rights under art . 26 . 3 . His rights had already been breached by that time . 28 . There is a seamless connection between the meeting of June 13 , 1994, the Grievor' s being suspended on that date (Exhibit 4) 54 and his being terminated on June 23 , 1994 (Exhibit 6) . It is artificial to arbitrarily divide the process whereby a meeting was held on June 13 to discuss a matter which might result in disciplinary action being taken against the Grievor and the events following which were inextricably associated with it : That is, to state that the June 13 meeting was insufficiently related to the discharge of June 23 in an endeavour to make the suspension effected by Exhibit 4 the only action of the Employer that was void ab initio. The events of the meeting of June 13th; the suspension imposed, and the discharge are so inextricably linked so as to taint not only the suspension but the discharge . Cf . Hickson-Lands (above) at pp . 338-90 . 29 . It was not suggested that anyone at the meeting of June 13 , 1994 specifically told the Grievor that the meeting was being held solely for the purpose of furthering a criminal investigation and the laying of a criminal charge . 30 . Being substantive in nature, it did not matter that the Employer was only notified of the Union' s intention to raise the violation of art . 26 . 3 on May 25 , 1995 . Also, the original written grievance was "broad enough so as to encompass discipline which is improper with respect to the procedure followed as well as the merits of the decision to terminate : Alcan Wire and Cable (above) at p. 10 (Emphasis in original) . Subject to the Grievor waiving his substantive rights under art . 26 . 3 , my jurisdiction t 55 is dependent on the Employer having complied with the provisions of that article . 31 . There was no evidence that the Grievor waived his rights under art . 26 . 3 , and it is difficult to see how he could have done so inasmuch as there was no evidence to show that he was made aware of his rights under that article . 32 . I do not regard the filing of the grievance on June 20 , 1994 (Exhibit 2) and the receipt by the Grievor of wages, benefits etc . during his suspension as precluding the Union from relying on the breach of art . 26 . 3 in connection with the grievance filed on June 28 , 1994 (Exhibit 3) following his discharge . Failure by the Employer to adhere to its obligations under the provisions of art . 26 . 3 affected not only the suspension but the subsequent discharge . It is the possible benefit to be derived from the presence of Union representation in relation to any discipline that might be imposed that is protected by art . 26 . 3 and not just the more immediate result of the meeting: the suspension imposed by Exhibit 4 . In fact, as it appears that the Grievor was going to be given Exhibit 4 no matter what happened at the meeting, it was the aftermath of the meeting: the ultimate discharge of the Grievor on June 23rd that was more closely linked to what transpired at the meeting. As has already been notd, it is difficult to believe that Mr. Holmes would conduct an examination of the Grievor only for the purpose of furthering a criminal 56 investigation in the presence of Sergeant Crockford. It is more probable that Mr. Holmes asked quetions of the Grievor primarily for the purposes of the Employer: to see if discipline should be imposed, and Sergeant Crockford asked questions of the Grievor for the purposes of the criminal investigation. 33 . Once the Employer held the meeting of June 13 , which it was not required to do, it was the ultimate penalty of discharge that was directly related to that meeting. And it was the discharge that was affected by the failure to honour the substantive right of the Grievor. 34 . While there may be a certain futility to this exercise, in that the Grievor may again be discharged by the Employer, this time following the requirements of the collective agreement, I agree with what was said in the Riverdale Hospital and VS Services Ltd. cases by Professor Brandt concerning a grievor, whose termination has been declared void ab initio because of a failure to follow the requirements of an article to the same effect as art . 26 . 3 , being subject to the possibility of being discharged for the same actions, however, in accordance with the requirements of the collective agreement . This is not a case where I should not reinstate the Grievor, as was suggested by counsel for the Employer. Accordingly, it is my award that the Union' s objection is upheld, and I find the disciplinary action taken by the Employer in discharging the Grievor on June 23 , 1994 57 was void ab initio . The Grievor will therefore be reinstated to his former position with the Employer without loss of seniority from that date he was discharged. 30 . I have a problem, however, with awarding the Grievor benefits and compensation from the date of his being discharged. This is because of the failure of the YJnion, until May 25 , 1995, to alert the Employer of its intention to rely on the failure to comply with art . 26 . 3 as a basis for making an application at the commencement of the hearing on June 5 , 1995 to have the discipline declared void ab initio. It is one thing to find that the claim was subsumed in the grievance : See Alcan Wire and Cable, above, at p . 10, and that it can therefore be raised at the hearing. It is quite another thing to say that relief should always be related back to the time of the discharge . Ibid. at P. 11 . In the case of a grievance that that has proceeded through the three stages of the grievance procedure, it would be expected that the issue relating to the Employer' s failure to comply with the provisions of art . 26 . 3 would, at some point in the procedure, have been raised by the Union. In this case, in the absence of prior notification by the Union, I find that the Employer only knew of the issue on May 25th. Because it was not informed of the issue before me until that date, it was deprived of the opportunity to consider its position in the light of the 58 implications that were raised for the first time on May 25th. If it had the opportunity to do so during the normal functioning of the grievance procedure, it could have acknowledged its failure to comply with art . 26 . 3 at minimal cost and then proceeded to discharge the Grievor in compliance with the requirements of the collective agreement, as Mr. Drmaj suggested could be done . In raising this possibilty, I am not saying that such an action would necessarily succeed. If the Union had promptly raised the issue at an earlier point in time, as it should have, and the Employer had maintained its position, I would have had no problem with awarding compensation to the Grievor from the date of his discharge . However, in the circumstances before me, it would be unfair to do so, and I award compensation and benefits only from the date of notification (May 25 , 1995 ) . I will retain jurisdiction to deal with the issue of compensation resulting from this award, if the parties are unable to agree on the amount payable . I would only add that counsel informed me that they had been unable to find any GSB case that dealt with the issue before me, and I wish to thank them for their thorough and and well presented submissions, which I have endeavoured to respond to . 59 Dated at Toronto this 15th day of August, 1995 . M.R. Gorsky vice Chairperson ONTARIO EMPLOYES DE LA COURONNE CROWN EMPL OYEES DE CON TA RIO GRIEVANCE COMMISSION DE SETTLEMENT REGLEMENT BOARD DES GRIEFS 180 DUNDAS STREET WEST, SUITE 2100, TORONTO, ONTARIO. MSG 1Z8 TELEPHONE/TELEPHONE: (416) 326-1388 180, RUE DUNDAS OUEST, BUREAU 2100, TORONTO (ONTARIO). MSG 1Z8 FACSIMILE/TELECOPIE: (416) 326-1396 August 23 , 1995 AMENDMENT RE: 809/94 OLBEU (LaHay) and the Crown in Right of Ontario (Liquor Control Board of Ontario) Please replace page 58 of the original decision with the revised page 58 . Yours truly, Ct5 A L. Stickland Registrar LS/dbg Encl. 58 implications that were raised for the first time on May 25th. If it had the opportunity to do so during the normal functioning of the grievance procedure, it could have acknowledged its failure to comply with art . 26 .3 at minimal cost and then proceeded to discharge the Grievor in compliance with the requirements of the collective agreement, as Mr. Drmaj suggested could be done. In raising this possibilty, I am not saying that such an action would necessarily succeed. If the Union had promptly raised the issue at an earlier point in time, as it should have, and the Employer had maintained its position, I would have had no problem with awarding compensation to the Grievor from the date of his discharge. However, in the circumstances before me, it would be unfair to do so, and I award compensation and benefits only from the date of notification (May 25, 199S) . I will retain jurisdiction to deal with the issue of compensation resulting from this award, if the parties are unable to agree on the amount payable . I would only add that counsel informed me that they had been unable to find any GSB case that dealt with the issue before me, and I wish to thank them for their thorough and and well presented submissions, which I have endeavoured to respond to. r 59 Dated at Toronto this 15th day of August, 1995 . M.R. Gorsky Vice Chairperson